TweetFollow Us on Twitter

Sep 95 Dialog Box
Volume Number:11
Issue Number:9
Column Tag:Dialog Box

Dialog Box

By Neil Ticktin, Editor-in-Chief/Publisher

Symantec Responds

Dear MacTech readers,

I would like to take a moment to address some of the concerns which have been expressed lately about Symantec.

Guy Nicholas, in the July issue, asked about supporting the standard SYM format for debugging. You can use the external linker to produce SYM files now, but we acknowledge that this is an incomplete solution. We expect to support the standard SYM format by Symantec Developers Advantage 5, available January, 1996.

Fred Johnson wondered about Pascal. There is no further engineering effort planned for THINK Pascal. Symantec does not wish to abandon it’s Pascal customers, and we are working with Language Systems to provide a drop-in translator by January 1996. This strategy allows you to mix Pascal and C in the same project. Please contact me or Language Systems (703/ 478-0181) for more information.

If there are any other questions you have about Symantec, I invite you to send me email at:

<mailto: wiverson@bedford.symantec.com>.

Yours,
Will Iverson
Symantec Macintosh DevTools
Evangelist & Ombudsman

Go C & C++!

I found your July ‘Dialog Box’ particularly entertaining, in part because it so well illustrates the myth about C, which you repeated in the words, “There are definite advantages to C or C++ when you want to get closer to the machine.” Unless you are programming for the PDP-11 (for which C is the quintessential high-level assembler) or a PDP-11-like computer (the 68K comes moderately close; the PowerPC does not), this is just plain not true. But like the Mazda ads, “it feels good,” regardless of the facts.

The reason you have a Symantec Top 10 was clearly spelled out in the two letters: it’s necessary. It’s less needed for Metrowerks, and not at all for Think Pascal. Anybody reading the column without deeply tinted rose-colored glasses quickly sees that it’s mostly about recovering from language and implementation deficiencies. It also, no doubt, helps the MacTech bottom line by encouraging uneducated programmers to believe that this is the language of choice, so they must continually come back to the fountain for more help. The column may even perform a valuable public service by helping smart programmers avoid the tar-pit before getting stuck in it.

Personally, I think C and C++ are wonderful languages, and I hope all my competitors make full use of them :-)

- Tom Pittman

[Let us be absolutely clear here - this is a public service announcement - program in Pascal, not C or C++! <g> - Ed. nst]

From a Thread Initiated On Semper.fi

[name deleted] wrote:

>For most of us, *mentioning* Sys 6 in the same breath as
>”Macintosh development” is bizarre.

Again, the issue I raised wasn’t about System 6.x in particular; it was about how Apple supports developers faced with the dilemma of adopting new technologies and yet supporting their existing customers. Maybe it’s easy to ignore System 6.x guys now that we are five years into System 7, but this is a general problem, one that’s only going to get worse.

For yet another example, take System 8. Preemptive multi-threading is going to become more useful for some tasks in System 8, and yet System 8 (right now) isn’t slated to work on 68K Macs. Certainly, 68K Macs aren’t where the “decisive action” is, and they will be even less so in a year, yet I can’t imagine that most companies will be willing to abandon 7.x support. Especially since it will be ’98 or ’99 before the installed base of Power Macs equals that of 68Ks.

So the question is, how do I write an app that takes advantage of preemptive threading in System 8, and yet still works fine for most of my customers, and do this with a minimum of headaches? One partial solution is for Apple to provide System 8 for 68K Macs. Another is for Apple to establish good guidelines and sample code showing how to use preemptively multithreaded code in a non-preemptively-multithreaded OS. Maybe it’s possible, maybe it’s not. But if Apple doesn’t provide some kind of solution for us, then there is going to be a big delay in the arrival of preemptively multithreaded software, a delay Apple can’t afford.

The rate of adoption of new technology does have a great impact on the outcome of the OS war. This means Apple needs to create good APIs. This means Apple needs to develop good developer tools. And this means that Apple needs to make it easy for developers to support existing customers during the multi-year transition. And if Apple doesn’t provide System 8 support for 68K Macs, there never will be a complete transition; we’ll always have some 15 million 68K/System 7 Macs out there that most developers won’t be able to ignore.

As you point out, good Mac people are scarce. We all have limited resources. That is exactly why Apple should be the one to put engineers on this problem. It is far better that Apple deal with the issue of finding ways for developers to support new technologies and old users, than to have hundreds or thousands of us have to deal with it individually. That’s a huge waste of Macintosh talent, and will be enough of a pain that a lot of companies just won’t adopt the new technologies.

One more point. While we’re fighting the OS war with new technologies and new ideas, let’s not be outflanked. One of the traditional benefits of the Macintosh is that they are long-lived computers. Whereas PCs might have an effective lifetime of a few years, a lot of eight- and nine-year-old Mac Pluses and SEs are still in use. And, perhaps until recently, those old computers could still run a lot of modern software.

As President of a User Group, I’ve heard a lot of users mark this as a benefit of owning a Mac. I’d hate to see us lose that benefit. I don’t think Apple and developers need to bend over backward to support System 6.x, but I also know that a lot of software out there can be written to support System 6.x with relative ease. Likewise, I guarantee a lot of people who bought (or are still buying 68K Macs) are discouraged to hear that Apple won’t be bringing System 8, with all its great features, to their brand-new computer.

A one-year-old computer and already unsupported? In my opinion, that is not the Macintosh way.

Nathan Tennies
Bootstrap Enterprises Inc

P.S. No, my company isn’t trying to corner the market on System 6.x users. However, I consider supporting these users, as much as possible, a mark of good programming just like fast execution speed and small code size. The dark side of the force is Microsoft, which often doesn’t seem to care about fast execution speed, small code size, or supporting users with older computers/operating systems (like those ancient, obsolete 68030 users).

Don’t give in to it.

Dylan Doesn’t Stand a Chance

I’ve just read the MacTech August issue’s Dylan article and have an observation to make: Apple’s Dylan has zero chance of success in the commercial programming marketplace. The reasons why this is true have absolutely nothing to do with the nature of dynamic programming or of Dylan itself.

First off, please understand that I am a fervent supporter of dynamic languages, and support the Dylan team in much of their design goals. Dynamic languages solve many problems and offer new solutions not allowed by the static languages in common use today. The leading language in object oriented programming, C++, not only suffers from its static nature but also from poor syntax design. C++ code and class hierarchies are as a result obtuse and brittle over the life of an application. Dylan solves many of these problems.

The difficulties stem not so much from the nature of Dylan, but rather from the nature of Apple. It is unrealistic for Apple to propose and expect success from a proprietary programming language of their own design. Apple’s track record in development environments and languages is very poor. Developers such as myself who’ve been with the Macintosh since the early days, have been rewarded by Apple with the destruction of their source code base.

Early Macintosh code was developed almost exclusively in Pascal, but with the advent of the PowerPC Macintoshes Pascal was abandoned by Apple with no viable migration path provided. This lack of support of a company’s software development environment is outrageous and unheard of amongst major hardware and software OS companies. Those of us with the will and desire to migrate to PowerPC are forced into converting our source code into C, a process that consumes much of a company’s development resources and results in a source code base that looks like it was written by Martians.

Now Apple trots out Dylan and asks the developer community to use it. I, for one, will not. Even if I have to jump through arcane hoops, I will use C++. At least I’ll be sure of the availability in ten years of development environments to build my code.

Jim Gagnon
Co-founder
Abacus Concepts, Inc.

 

Community Search:
MacTech Search:

Software Updates via MacUpdate

Sound Studio 4.10.0 - Robust audio recor...
Sound Studio lets you easily record and professionally edit audio on your Mac. Easily rip vinyls and digitize cassette tapes, or record lectures and voice memos. Prepare for live shows with live... Read more
Sparkle Pro 4.0 - Visual website creator...
Sparkle Pro will change your mind if you thought building websites wasn't for you. Sparkle is the intuitive site builder that lets you create sites for your online portfolio, team or band pages, or... Read more
Dropbox 140.4.1951 - Cloud backup and sy...
Dropbox for Mac is a file hosting service that provides cloud storage, file synchronization, personal cloud, and client software. It is a modern workspace that allows you to get to all of your files... Read more
FotoMagico 6.0.5 - Powerful slideshow cr...
FotoMagico lets you create professional slideshows from your photos and music with just a few, simple mouse clicks. It sports a very clean and intuitive yet powerful user interface. High image... Read more
Remotix 6.4.2 - Access all your computer...
Remotix is a fast and powerful application to easily access multiple Macs (and PCs) from your own Mac. Features: Complete Apple Screen Sharing support - including Mac OS X login, clipboard... Read more
Microsoft Office 365, 2019 16.57 - Popul...
Microsoft Office 365. The essentials to get it all done. Unmistakably Office, designed for Mac Get started quickly with new, modern versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook and OneNote-... Read more
War Thunder 2.13.0.66 - Multiplayer war...
In War Thunder, aircraft, attack helicopters, ground forces and naval ships collaborate in realistic competitive battles. You can choose from over 1,500 vehicles and an extensive variety of combat... Read more
RoboForm 9.2.8 - Password manager; syncs...
RoboForm is a password manager that offers one-click login, mobile syncing, easy form filling, and reliable security. Password Manager. RoboForm remembers your passwords so you don't have to! Just... Read more
Adobe Photoshop 23.1.1 - Professional im...
You can download Photoshop for Mac as a part of Creative Cloud for only $20.99/month (or $9.99/month if you have purchased an earlier software version). Adobe Photoshop is a recognized classic of... Read more
VirtualBox 6.1.32 - x86 virtualization s...
VirtualBox is a family of powerful x86 virtualization products for enterprise as well as home use. Not only is VirtualBox an extremely feature rich, high performance product for enterprise customers... Read more

Latest Forum Discussions

See All

‘Ark Legends’ Gives Players a Chance to...
It’s Airpods and Amazon gift cards galore as Melting Games opens pre-registration for Ark Legends. The upcoming mobile RPG is giving away tons of in-game goodies such as gold, energy, iron core, hero summon chest and rare iron core to players who... | Read more »
‘Nickelodeon Extreme Tennis’ Out Now on...
Nickelodeon Extreme Tennis () from Old Skull Games and Nickelodeon is this week’s new Apple Arcade release. Nickelodeon Extreme Tennis features characters from old and new Nickelodeon shows including SpongeBob, TMNT, and many more. The tennis game... | Read more »
SwitchArcade Round-Up: ‘RPGolf Legends’,...
Hello gentle readers, and welcome to the SwitchArcade Round-Up for January 20th, 2022. In today’s article, we’ve got a massive amount of new releases to check out. We’ve got summaries of all of them, from heaven to hell. We also have the lists of... | Read more »
‘Zed Blade ACA NEOGEO’ Review – Well, It...
SNK’s NEOGEO platform played host to a great many classics, both famous and under-the-radar. The Metal Slug games. The King of Fighters series. Magician Lord. Shock Troopers. Sengoku 3. NEO Turf Masters. Fatal Fury. Samurai Shodown. Twinkle Star... | Read more »
‘Inua – A Story in Ice and Time’ is a Un...
One thing I know about ARTE from their output on mobile over the years is that they love collaborating with really interesting and unique studios to put out really interesting and unique gaming experiences. This is true yet again with the latest... | Read more »
Out Now: ‘Angry Birds Journey’, ‘RPG Dic...
Each and every day new mobile games are hitting the App Store, and so each week we put together a big old list of all the best new releases of the past seven days. Back in the day the App Store would showcase the same games for a week, and then... | Read more »
SwitchArcade Round-Up: ‘Banjo-Kazooie’ C...
Hello gentle readers, and welcome to the SwitchArcade Round-Up for January 19th, 2022. After a couple of big-pants articles in recent days, today is somewhat of a lighter one. We’ve got a little news to go over, a small handful of new releases to... | Read more »
‘Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel’ Is Out Now on PC...
Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel was confirmed for all consoles including Switch, PS5, and more in addition to PC and mobile platforms last year. Since then, Yu-Gi-Oh! | Read more »
SwitchArcade Round-Up: Reviews Featuring...
Hello gentle readers, and welcome to the SwitchArcade Round-Up for January 18th, 2022. We’ve got another batch of reviews today, with our pal Mikhail covering the lamentable Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy Definitive Edition. Has it been whipped into... | Read more »
‘Total War: Medieval II’ Coming to iOS a...
After a bit of teasing, Feral Interactive just announced that it is bringing Total War: Medieval II to iOS and Android. This will be the developer’s first release since the brilliant Alien Isolation. Check out my review of the iOS version here. | Read more »

Price Scanner via MacPrices.net

In stock and on sale! 16″ 10-Core M1 Pro MacB...
Amazon has new 16″ 10-Core/512GB M1 Pro MacBook Pros in stock today and on sale for $50 off MSRP including free shipping. Their prices are the lowest available for new M1 Pro 16″ MacBook Pro from any... Read more
Deal Alert!: 14″ M1 Pro with 10-Core CPU in s...
Amazon has the new 14″ M1 Pro MacBook Pro with a 10-Core CPU and 16-Core GPU in stock today and on sale for $2299.99 including free shipping. Their price is $200 off Apple’s standard MSRP, and it’s... Read more
Apple has 24-inch M1 iMacs (8-Core CPU/8-Core...
Apple has restocked a wide array of 24-inch M1 iMacs with 8-Core CPUs and 8-Core GPUs in their Certified Refurbished store. Models are available starting at only $1269 and range up to $260 off... Read more
Select 24″ M1 iMacs are on sale for $100 off...
Sales of Apple’s new 24″ M1 iMacs have been rare since its introduction, perhaps due to global supply issues. However, B&H is offering a $100 discount on select 24″ iMacs, and they’re in stock... Read more
M1 Mac minis are back in stock today at Apple...
Apple has M1-powered Mac minis available in their Certified Refurbished section starting at only $589 and up to $140 off MSRP. Each mini comes with Apple’s one-year warranty, and shipping is free: –... Read more
B&H has M1-powered Mac minis on sale for...
B&H Photo has Apple’s Mac minis with M1 Apple Silicon CPUs in stock today and on sale for $50-$100 off MSRP, starting at $649. Free 1-2 shipping is free to many US addresses. Their prices are... Read more
New Amazon sale: Apple’s 13″ M1 MacBook Airs...
Amazon has Apple 13″ M1 MacBook Airs on sale for $100 off MSRP, starting at only $899. Their prices are the lowest available for new MacBook Airs today. Stock may come and go, so check their site... Read more
Get an Apple Watch Series 7 for $50 off MSRP,...
Amazon has Apple Watch Series 7 models on sale for $50 off MSRP including free shipping. Their prices are the lowest available for Apple Watch Series 7 models today: – 41mm Apple Watch Series 7 GPS... Read more
Here are the details of Apple’s 2022 Educatio...
Need a new Apple Mac or iPad for school? Whether you’re a student, teacher, or staff member, you can use your .edu email address when ordering at Apple Education to take up to $400 off the price of a... Read more
Amazon is blowing out 2020 21″ iMacs for only...
Amazon has clearance 2020 21″ iMacs (2.3GHz Dual-Core i5, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD) on sale right now for $599.99 including free shipping. Original MSRP for this model was $1099. Amazon expects delivery in... Read more

Jobs Board

Registered Nurse (RN) Employee Health PSJH -...
…is calling for a Registered Nurse (RN) Employee Health PSJH to our location in Apple Valley, CA.** We are seeking a Registered Nurse (RN) Employee Health PSJH to be Read more
Systems Administrator - Pearson (United State...
…and troubleshoot Windows operating systems (workstation and server), laptop computers, Apple iPads, Chromebooks and printers** + **Administer and troubleshoot all Read more
IT Assistant Level 1- IT Desktop Support Anal...
…providing tier-1 or better IT help desk support in a large Windows and Apple environment * Experience using IT Service Desk Management Software * Knowledge of IT Read more
Human Resources Business Partner PSJH - Provi...
…**is calling a** **Human Resources Business Partner, PSJH** **to our location in Apple Valley, CA.** **Applicants that meet qualifications will receive a text with Read more
Manager Community Health Investment Programs...
…is calling a Manager Community Health Investment Programs PSJH to our location in Apple Valley, CA.** **Qualified candidates will be invited to do a self-paced video Read more
All contents are Copyright 1984-2011 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.