TweetFollow Us on Twitter

Aug 94 Dialog Box
Volume Number:10
Issue Number:8
Column Tag:Dialog Box

Dialog Box

By Scott T Boyd, Editor

Failure of OO Revolution?

On 6/5/94, vollrath@vax.ox.ac.uk wrote [in STA-FORUM@qks.com]:

I have been interested in Dylan since I first heard about it, although I have had little solid information until recently. I hope it does well, and am reasonably confident that it will. I certainly agree with its goals. I saw that in a recent edition of Byte they said that the OO ‘revolution’ had failed, but sang the virtues of Visual Basic. It hasn’t failed, it just hasn’t really started yet! All that has happened is that people that wrote in C now right in a more complicated C. ‘Real’ dynamic-OOLs that provide a good and convincing alternative to this haven’t really been around. Now, STA is one, Eiffel is one, and I think Dylan will be one. ... portions deleted...

Most of you know that we have so enhanced and extended Smalltalk’s capabilities/design in our Smalltalk product (SmalltalkAgents (STA)) that it is really another generation of the Smalltalk language. Therefore, I will essentially punt on any Dylan commentary since I have been answering such questions (regarding QKS activity in this area) privately.

NOTES:

(1) Eiffel is not a (OODL) object oriented dynamic language and thus it suffers from some of the same problems as C++ (it is still better than C++ in many ways).

(2) Dylan is function-centric, not object-centric. In Dylan, objects are just structure, they do not have any inherent behavior. Modules (which contain methods/unlike classes in other languages) become the behavioral scope and the notions of OO such as inheritance are VERY different (i.e., sometimes they just don’t exist in the language proper :-). STA has combined both class and module style scope in our upcoming v1.2 release, thus libraries/projects can have both public (unscoped) and (scoped) private methods that shadow class/object methods for messages sent by methods in a library/project or one of its sublibraries.

(3) The STA-Forum now has a fair number of subscribers who do not own (or author in) SmalltalkAgents, but are on the forum to monitor technology trends.

(4) As most of you know, QKS’es Smalltalk (SmalltalkAgents) already has components and we are making them really sophisticated in our upcoming releases. We long ago committed to CIL/OpenDoc and will plug and play into other component systems through whatever host services are available (like SOM/DSOM).

I would like to make a few comments on the OO revolution failing: First, I think it is an absurd statement. Component technology can only be layered on top of an OO paradigm. What I mean by this is that components are like a 5GL given that I have a OO substrate to build them on (the 4GL piece). Components are just objects with a “well-known” messaging and data-interchange framework. For components to really become successful the industry has to tackle the much harder problems of extensible “framework” design, interaction, and validation.

I believe that componentization of system software and applications is just a natural evolution of object technology. Saying OO has failed, seems as absurd as saying that Ethernet/IP has failed now that we have Wide Area Networks and alternative transports (i.e., now that the mass media has discovered the internet).

Most “complete” OO languages provide a rich set of frameworks that already have a component based architecture. I think that it is really C++ with its non-dynamic architecture and complex semantics/grammar that is failing.

I have to wonder what the BYTE author’s real knowledge, experience, or awareness was to make such a public statement (in the corporate Smalltalk area alone, I wonder what they thought IBM/Digitalk PARTS were?). We all know that IBM has over 1.1 billion dollars of Smalltalk work on the books for 1994 (which they cannot find skilled people to fulfill).

The corporate marketplace is bailing on C++ and demanding Smalltalk, with real salaries for qualified corporate Smalltalk programmers typically ranging from $1000 to $2000 per day. We also know that IBM has committed to moving all their COBOL base onto Smalltalk - what does that tell you? OO really premiered with Smalltalk (not SIMULA as some folks would have you believe), and Smalltalk still epitomizes most if not all the OO principles (multiple inheritance excluded <== lack of it is an arguable ST weakness).

It seems irresponsible to tout Microsoft’s (market-saturation of) VisualBasic without carefully explaining the real issues of development today (which I think involve productivity (environments, visual-tools, self-authoring-agents), robustness, maintainability, scalable design, teams, and integration of independently authored bodies of code [frameworks, fragments, components, etc]). It is this kind of “promotion” that got us into the C++ mess in the first place...

The Windows/DOS world has been dominated so long by static C/C++ that when it got a taste of dynamic/interactive languages via VisualBasic it reacted like a starving person. It is really Microsoft who finally has begun to wake up to the problems of C++, you watch...

As has been mentioned by folks on this forum and elsewhere, the real change that is happening in software technology is that we are moving away from language issues and onto design (object/framework interaction) and productivity issues. In this evolving world, the capabilities of the development environments (integrated visual tools and packaging are crucial) and the frameworks they provide become the critical elements.

Building components in C++ is just as hard as building applications (talk to the folks who are trying to do it). The real problem at hand is managing complexity and capturing the design intent. The latter means that when I re-use or plug-in code (including components) from some outside source, how do I know how it will behave and how can I verify that it follows all my frameworks “rules”. All kinds of new issues arise, especially with regard to extensibility, negotion of services, access to attributes, etc. All these latter items are framework (message suite) issues.

In my opinion, software (environments) systems that automatically infer and retain design-intent as a natural and integrated part of the “authoring” process, and subsequently allow it to be formally managed in team development environments with minimal complexity are the new “holy-grail”.

Just my usual opinions ;-)

What do you other folks think?

- Dave Simmons

Quasar Knowledge Systems, Inc. [QKS], dsimmons@qks.com

You Didn’t Need Those New Features Anyway, Did You?

Great magazine and great article on Drag & Drop in your June 94 issue - but I have a problem. Like many developers, I am using a third party’s class library to implement my applications (in my case, TCL).

It’s all very well for Apple to bring out (excellent) extensions to the OS like Drag & Drop, but if you are tied to a class library (whose destiny you don’t control) it may as well not exist. I looked at retrofitting D&D into TCL 1.1.3 and decided that I would have to override 30odd classes to provide D&D. It isn’t worth the effort. Firstly, it’s an incredible amount of work, and secondly I would effectively end up with my own version of TCL - which I would then have had to convert to TCL 2.0 and beyond! I note that TCL 2.0 still doesn’t support Drag & Drop.

In the future, can Apple apply some pressue (god knows how) on vendors of developer tools to incorporate these extensions into their class libraries so that they can be released concurrently? If these new extensions are taken up earlier by developers, it’s good business for Apple.

I have an application which screams for D&D right now, but I’ll have to work around that until Symantec gets TCL to support D&D.

- Craig McFarlane

Delaney & Morgan Computing Pty. Ltd., Australia

 

Community Search:
MacTech Search:

Software Updates via MacUpdate

Navicat Premium Essentials 12.1.25 - Pro...
Navicat Premium Essentials is a compact version of Navicat which provides basic and necessary features you will need to perform simple administration on a database. It supports the latest features... Read more
Sketch 58 - Design app for UX/UI for iOS...
Sketch is an innovative and fresh look at vector drawing. Its intentionally minimalist design is based upon a drawing space of unlimited size and layers, free of palettes, panels, menus, windows, and... Read more
ClipGrab 3.8.5 - Download videos from Yo...
ClipGrab is a free downloader and converter for YouTube, Vimeo, Facebook and many other online video sites. It converts downloaded videos to MPEG4, MP3 or other formats in just one easy step Version... Read more
Dash 4.6.6 - Instant search and offline...
Dash is an API documentation browser and code snippet manager. Dash helps you store snippets of code, as well as instantly search and browse documentation for almost any API you might use (for a full... Read more
FotoMagico 5.6.8 - Powerful slideshow cr...
FotoMagico lets you create professional slideshows from your photos and music with just a few, simple mouse clicks. It sports a very clean and intuitive yet powerful user interface. High image... Read more
Civilization VI 1.2.4 - Next iteration o...
Sid Meier’s Civilization VI is the next entry in the popular Civilization franchise. Originally created by legendary game designer Sid Meier, Civilization is a strategy game in which you attempt to... Read more
Skype 8.52.0.138 - Voice-over-internet p...
Skype allows you to talk to friends, family and co-workers across the Internet without the inconvenience of long distance telephone charges. Using peer-to-peer data transmission technology, Skype... Read more
Bookends 13.2.6 - Reference management a...
Bookends is a full-featured bibliography/reference and information-management system for students and professionals. Bookends uses the cloud to sync reference libraries on all the Macs you use.... Read more
BusyContacts 1.4.0 - Fast, efficient con...
BusyContacts is a contact manager for OS X that makes creating, finding, and managing contacts faster and more efficient. It brings to contact management the same power, flexibility, and sharing... Read more
Chromium 77.0.3865.75 - Fast and stable...
Chromium is an open-source browser project that aims to build a safer, faster, and more stable way for all Internet users to experience the web. Version 77.0.3865.75: A list of changes is available... Read more

Latest Forum Discussions

See All

Yoozoo Games launches Saint Seiya Awaken...
If you’re into your anime, you’ve probably seen or heard of Saint Seiya. Based on a shonen manga by Masami Kurumada, the series was massively popular in the 1980s – especially in its native Japan. Since then, it’s grown into a franchise of all... | Read more »
Five Nights at Freddy's AR: Special...
Five Nights at Freddy's AR: Special Delivery is a terrifying new nightmare from developer Illumix. Last week, FNAF fans were sent into a frenzy by a short teaser for what we now know to be Special Delivery. Those in the comments were quick to... | Read more »
Rush Rally 3's new live events are...
Last week, Rush Rally 3 got updated with live events, and it’s one of the best things to happen to racing games on mobile. Prior to this update, the game already had multiplayer, but live events are more convenient in the sense that it’s somewhat... | Read more »
Why your free-to-play racer sucks
It’s been this way for a while now, but playing Hot Wheels Infinite Loop really highlights a big issue with free-to-play mobile racing games: They suck. It doesn’t matter if you’re trying going for realism, cart racing, or arcade nonsense, they’re... | Read more »
Steam Link Spotlight - The Banner Saga 3
Steam Link Spotlight is a new feature where we take a look at PC games that play exceptionally well using the Steam Link app. Our last entry talked about Terry Cavanaugh’s incredible Dicey Dungeons. Read about how it’s a great mobile experience... | Read more »
PSA: GRIS has some issues
You may or may not have seen that Devolver Digital just released GRIS on the App Store, but we wanted to do a quick public service announcement to say that you might not want to hop on buying it just yet. The puzzle platformer has come to small... | Read more »
Combo Quest (Games)
Combo Quest 1.0 Device: iOS Universal Category: Games Price: $.99, Version: 1.0 (iTunes) Description: Combo Quest is an epic, time tap role-playing adventure. In this unique masterpiece, you are a knight on a heroic quest to retrieve... | Read more »
Hero Emblems (Games)
Hero Emblems 1.0 Device: iOS Universal Category: Games Price: $2.99, Version: 1.0 (iTunes) Description: ** 25% OFF for a limited time to celebrate the release ** ** Note for iPhone 6 user: If it doesn't run fullscreen on your device... | Read more »
Puzzle Blitz (Games)
Puzzle Blitz 1.0 Device: iOS Universal Category: Games Price: $1.99, Version: 1.0 (iTunes) Description: Puzzle Blitz is a frantic puzzle solving race against the clock! Solve as many puzzles as you can, before time runs out! You have... | Read more »
Sky Patrol (Games)
Sky Patrol 1.0.1 Device: iOS Universal Category: Games Price: $1.99, Version: 1.0.1 (iTunes) Description: 'Strategic Twist On The Classic Shooter Genre' - Indie Game Mag... | Read more »

Price Scanner via MacPrices.net

Preorder your Apple Watch Series 5 today at A...
Amazon has Apple Watch Series 5 GPS models available for preorder and on sale today for $15 off Apple’s MSRP. Shipping is free and starts on September 20th: – 40mm Apple Watch Series 5 GPS: $384.99 $... Read more
21″ iMacs on sale for $100 off Apple’s MSRP,...
B&H Photo has new 21″ Apple iMacs on sale for $100 off MSRP with models available starting at $999. These are the same iMacs offered by Apple in their retail and online stores. Overnight shipping... Read more
2018 4 and 6-Core Mac minis on sale today for...
Apple resellers are offering new 2018 4-Core and 6-Core Mac minis for $100-$150 off MSRP for a limited time. B&H Photo has the new 2018 4-Core and 6-Core Mac minis on sale for up to $150 off... Read more
Save $150-$250 on 10.2″ WiFi + Cellular iPads...
Verizon is offering $150-$250 discounts on Apple’s new 10.2″ WiFi + Cellular iPad with service. Buy the iPad itself and save $150. Save $250 on the purchase of an iPad along with an iPhone. The fine... Read more
Apple continues to offer 13″ 2.3GHz Dual-Core...
Apple has Certified Refurbished 2017 13″ 2.3GHz Dual-Core non-Touch Bar MacBook Pros available starting at $1019. An standard Apple one-year warranty is included with each model, outer cases are new... Read more
Apple restocks 2018 MacBook Airs, Certified R...
Apple has restocked Certified Refurbished 2018 13″ MacBook Airs starting at only $849. Each MacBook features a new outer case, comes with a standard Apple one-year warranty, and is shipped free. The... Read more
Sunday Sale! 2019 27″ 5K 6-Core iMacs for $20...
B&H Photo has the new 2019 27″ 5K 6-Core iMacs on stock today and on sale for up to $250 off Apple’s MSRP. Overnight shipping is free to many locations in the US. These are the same iMacs sold by... Read more
Weekend Sale! 2019 13″ MacBook Airs for $200...
Amazon has new 2019 13″ MacBook Airs on sale for $200 off Apple’s MSRP, with prices starting at $899, each including free shipping. Be sure to select Amazon as the seller during checkout, rather than... Read more
2019 15″ MacBook Pros now on sale for $350-$4...
B&H Photo has Apple’s 2019 15″ 6-Core and 8-Core MacBook Pros on sale today for $350-$400 off MSRP, starting at $2049, with free overnight shipping available to many addresses in the US: – 2019... Read more
Buy one Apple Watch Series 5 at Verizon, get...
Buy one Apple Watch Series 5 at Verizon, and get a second Watch for 50% off. Plus save $10 on your first month of service. The fine print: “Buy Apple Watch, get another up to 50% off on us. Plus $10... Read more

Jobs Board

*Apple* Mobility Pro-Store 149 - Best Buy (U...
**731985BR** **Job Title:** Apple Mobility Pro-Store 149 **Job Category:** Store Associates **Location Number:** 000149-Towson-Store **Job Description:** At Best Read more
Student Employment (Blue *Apple* Cafe) Spri...
Student Employment (Blue Apple Cafe) Spring 2019 Penn State University Campus/Location: Penn State Brandywine Campus City: Media, PA Date Announced: 12/20/2018 Date Read more
Windows/ *Apple* Technical Support Engineer...
Windows/ Apple Technical Support Engineer McLean , VA , US Apply + Be you + Be Booz Allen + Be empowered + Learn More Job Description Location: McLean, VA, US Job Read more
*Apple* Mobile Master - Best Buy (United Sta...
**725617BR** **Job Title:** Apple Mobile Master **Job Category:** Store Associates **Location Number:** 001095-Chesterfield-Store **Job Description:** **What does a Read more
Geek Squad *Apple* Master Consultation Agen...
**732415BR** **Job Title:** Geek Squad Apple Master Consultation Agent **Job Category:** Services/Installation/Repair **Location Number:** 000425-Hickory-Store **Job Read more
All contents are Copyright 1984-2011 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.