TweetFollow Us on Twitter

Aug 94 Dialog Box
Volume Number:10
Issue Number:8
Column Tag:Dialog Box

Dialog Box

By Scott T Boyd, Editor

Failure of OO Revolution?

On 6/5/94, vollrath@vax.ox.ac.uk wrote [in STA-FORUM@qks.com]:

I have been interested in Dylan since I first heard about it, although I have had little solid information until recently. I hope it does well, and am reasonably confident that it will. I certainly agree with its goals. I saw that in a recent edition of Byte they said that the OO ‘revolution’ had failed, but sang the virtues of Visual Basic. It hasn’t failed, it just hasn’t really started yet! All that has happened is that people that wrote in C now right in a more complicated C. ‘Real’ dynamic-OOLs that provide a good and convincing alternative to this haven’t really been around. Now, STA is one, Eiffel is one, and I think Dylan will be one. ... portions deleted...

Most of you know that we have so enhanced and extended Smalltalk’s capabilities/design in our Smalltalk product (SmalltalkAgents (STA)) that it is really another generation of the Smalltalk language. Therefore, I will essentially punt on any Dylan commentary since I have been answering such questions (regarding QKS activity in this area) privately.

NOTES:

(1) Eiffel is not a (OODL) object oriented dynamic language and thus it suffers from some of the same problems as C++ (it is still better than C++ in many ways).

(2) Dylan is function-centric, not object-centric. In Dylan, objects are just structure, they do not have any inherent behavior. Modules (which contain methods/unlike classes in other languages) become the behavioral scope and the notions of OO such as inheritance are VERY different (i.e., sometimes they just don’t exist in the language proper :-). STA has combined both class and module style scope in our upcoming v1.2 release, thus libraries/projects can have both public (unscoped) and (scoped) private methods that shadow class/object methods for messages sent by methods in a library/project or one of its sublibraries.

(3) The STA-Forum now has a fair number of subscribers who do not own (or author in) SmalltalkAgents, but are on the forum to monitor technology trends.

(4) As most of you know, QKS’es Smalltalk (SmalltalkAgents) already has components and we are making them really sophisticated in our upcoming releases. We long ago committed to CIL/OpenDoc and will plug and play into other component systems through whatever host services are available (like SOM/DSOM).

I would like to make a few comments on the OO revolution failing: First, I think it is an absurd statement. Component technology can only be layered on top of an OO paradigm. What I mean by this is that components are like a 5GL given that I have a OO substrate to build them on (the 4GL piece). Components are just objects with a “well-known” messaging and data-interchange framework. For components to really become successful the industry has to tackle the much harder problems of extensible “framework” design, interaction, and validation.

I believe that componentization of system software and applications is just a natural evolution of object technology. Saying OO has failed, seems as absurd as saying that Ethernet/IP has failed now that we have Wide Area Networks and alternative transports (i.e., now that the mass media has discovered the internet).

Most “complete” OO languages provide a rich set of frameworks that already have a component based architecture. I think that it is really C++ with its non-dynamic architecture and complex semantics/grammar that is failing.

I have to wonder what the BYTE author’s real knowledge, experience, or awareness was to make such a public statement (in the corporate Smalltalk area alone, I wonder what they thought IBM/Digitalk PARTS were?). We all know that IBM has over 1.1 billion dollars of Smalltalk work on the books for 1994 (which they cannot find skilled people to fulfill).

The corporate marketplace is bailing on C++ and demanding Smalltalk, with real salaries for qualified corporate Smalltalk programmers typically ranging from $1000 to $2000 per day. We also know that IBM has committed to moving all their COBOL base onto Smalltalk - what does that tell you? OO really premiered with Smalltalk (not SIMULA as some folks would have you believe), and Smalltalk still epitomizes most if not all the OO principles (multiple inheritance excluded <== lack of it is an arguable ST weakness).

It seems irresponsible to tout Microsoft’s (market-saturation of) VisualBasic without carefully explaining the real issues of development today (which I think involve productivity (environments, visual-tools, self-authoring-agents), robustness, maintainability, scalable design, teams, and integration of independently authored bodies of code [frameworks, fragments, components, etc]). It is this kind of “promotion” that got us into the C++ mess in the first place...

The Windows/DOS world has been dominated so long by static C/C++ that when it got a taste of dynamic/interactive languages via VisualBasic it reacted like a starving person. It is really Microsoft who finally has begun to wake up to the problems of C++, you watch...

As has been mentioned by folks on this forum and elsewhere, the real change that is happening in software technology is that we are moving away from language issues and onto design (object/framework interaction) and productivity issues. In this evolving world, the capabilities of the development environments (integrated visual tools and packaging are crucial) and the frameworks they provide become the critical elements.

Building components in C++ is just as hard as building applications (talk to the folks who are trying to do it). The real problem at hand is managing complexity and capturing the design intent. The latter means that when I re-use or plug-in code (including components) from some outside source, how do I know how it will behave and how can I verify that it follows all my frameworks “rules”. All kinds of new issues arise, especially with regard to extensibility, negotion of services, access to attributes, etc. All these latter items are framework (message suite) issues.

In my opinion, software (environments) systems that automatically infer and retain design-intent as a natural and integrated part of the “authoring” process, and subsequently allow it to be formally managed in team development environments with minimal complexity are the new “holy-grail”.

Just my usual opinions ;-)

What do you other folks think?

- Dave Simmons

Quasar Knowledge Systems, Inc. [QKS], dsimmons@qks.com

You Didn’t Need Those New Features Anyway, Did You?

Great magazine and great article on Drag & Drop in your June 94 issue - but I have a problem. Like many developers, I am using a third party’s class library to implement my applications (in my case, TCL).

It’s all very well for Apple to bring out (excellent) extensions to the OS like Drag & Drop, but if you are tied to a class library (whose destiny you don’t control) it may as well not exist. I looked at retrofitting D&D into TCL 1.1.3 and decided that I would have to override 30odd classes to provide D&D. It isn’t worth the effort. Firstly, it’s an incredible amount of work, and secondly I would effectively end up with my own version of TCL - which I would then have had to convert to TCL 2.0 and beyond! I note that TCL 2.0 still doesn’t support Drag & Drop.

In the future, can Apple apply some pressue (god knows how) on vendors of developer tools to incorporate these extensions into their class libraries so that they can be released concurrently? If these new extensions are taken up earlier by developers, it’s good business for Apple.

I have an application which screams for D&D right now, but I’ll have to work around that until Symantec gets TCL to support D&D.

- Craig McFarlane

Delaney & Morgan Computing Pty. Ltd., Australia

 

Community Search:
MacTech Search:

Software Updates via MacUpdate

Garmin Express 7.0.0.0 - Manage your Gar...
Garmin Express is your essential tool for managing your Garmin devices. Update maps, golf courses and device software. You can even register your device. Update maps Update software Register your... Read more
ClipGrab 3.8.12 - Download videos from Y...
ClipGrab is a free downloader and converter for YouTube, Vimeo, Facebook and many other online video sites. It converts downloaded videos to MPEG4, MP3 or other formats in just one easy step Version... Read more
VMware Fusion 11.5.5 - Run Windows apps...
VMware Fusion and Fusion Pro - virtualization software for running Windows, Linux, and other systems on a Mac without rebooting. The latest version includes full support for Windows 10, macOS Mojave... Read more
Civilization VI 1.3.0 - Next iteration o...
Civilization® VI is the award-winning experience. Expand your empire across the map, advance your culture, and compete against history’s greatest leaders to build a civilization that will stand the... Read more
Corel Painter 20.1.0.285 - Digital art s...
Corel Painter lets you advance your digital art style with painted textures, subtle glazing brushwork, interactive gradients, and realistic Natural-Media. Easily transition from traditional to... Read more
iTubeDownloader 6.5.19 - Easily download...
iTubeDownloader is a powerful-yet-simple YouTube downloader for the masses. Because it contains a proprietary browser, you can browse YouTube like you normally would. When you see something you want... Read more
OmniFocus 3.8 - GTD task manager with iO...
OmniFocus is an organizer app. It uses projects to organize tasks naturally, and then add tags to organize across projects. Easily enter tasks when you’re on the go, and process them when you have... Read more
Hazel 4.4.5 - Create rules for organizin...
Hazel is your personal housekeeper, organizing and cleaning folders based on rules you define. Hazel can also manage your trash and uninstall your applications. Organize your files using a familiar... Read more
Macs Fan Control 1.5.7 - Monitor and con...
Macs Fan Control allows you to monitor and control almost any aspect of your computer's fans, with support for controlling fan speed, temperature sensors pane, menu-bar icon, and autostart with... Read more
Acorn 6.6 - Bitmap image editor.
Acorn is a new image editor built with one goal in mind - simplicity. Fast, easy, and fluid, Acorn provides the options you'll need without any overhead. Acorn feels right, and won't drain your bank... Read more

Latest Forum Discussions

See All

Steam Link Spotlight - Signs of the Sojo...
Steam Link Spotlight is a feature where we look at PC games that play exceptionally well using the Steam Link app. Our last entry was XCOM: Chimera Squad. Read about how it plays using Steam Link's new mouse and keyboard support over here. | Read more »
Steampunk Tower 2, DreamGate's sequ...
Steampunk Tower 2 is a DreamGate's follow up to their previous tower defence game. It's available now for both iOS and Android as a free-to-play title and will see players defending their lone base by kitting it out with a variety of turrets. [... | Read more »
Clash Royale: The Road to Legendary Aren...
Supercell recently celebrated its 10th anniversary and their best title, Clash Royale, is as good as it's ever been. Even for lapsed players, returning to the game is as easy as can be. If you want to join us in picking the game back up, we've put... | Read more »
Pokemon Go Fest 2020 will be a virtual e...
Niantic has announced that Pokemon Go Fest will still take place this year although understandably it won't be a physical event. Instead, it will become a virtual celebration and is set to be held on 25th and 26th July. [Read more] | Read more »
Marvel Future Fight's major May upd...
Marvel Future Fight's latest update has now landed, and it sounds like a big one. The focus this time around is on Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy, and it introduces all-new characters, quests, and uniforms for players to collect. [Read more] | Read more »
SINoALICE, Yoko Taro and Pokelabo's...
Yoko Taro and developer Pokelabo's SINoALICE has now opened for pre-registration over on the App Store. It's already amassed 1.5 million Android pre-registrations, and it's currently slated to launch on July 1st. [Read more] | Read more »
Masketeers: Idle Has Fallen's lates...
Masketeers: Idle Has Fallen is the latest endeavour from Appxplore, the folks behind Crab War, Thor: War of Tapnarok and Light A Way. It's an idle RPG that's currently available for Android in Early Access and will head to iOS at a later date. [... | Read more »
Evil Hunter Tycoon celebrates 2 million...
Evil Hunter Tycoon has proved to be quite the hit since launching back in March, with its most recent milestone being 2 million downloads. To celebrate the achievement, developer Super Planet has released a new updated called Darkness' Front Yard... | Read more »
Peak's Edge is an intriguing roguel...
Peak's Edge is an upcoming roguelike puzzle game from developer Kenny Sun that's heading for both iOS and Android on June 4th as a free-to-play title. It will see players rolling a pyramid shape through a variety of different levels. [Read more] | Read more »
Clash Royale: The Road to Legendary Aren...
Supercell recently celebrated its 10th anniversary and their best title, Clash Royale, is as good as it's ever been. Even for lapsed players, returning to the game is as easy as can be. If you want to join us in picking the game back up, we've put... | Read more »

Price Scanner via MacPrices.net

Sams Club Sales Event: $100 off every Apple W...
Sams Club is discounting all Apple Watch Series 5 models by $100 off Apple’s MSRP through June 3, 2020. Choose free shipping or free local store pickup (if available). Sale prices for online orders... Read more
New 16″ MacBook Pros now on sale for up to $2...
Apple reseller DataVision is now offering new 16″ Apple MacBook Pros for up to $255 off MSRP, each including free shipping. Prices start at $2194. DataVision charges sales tax for NY, NJ, PA, and CA... Read more
Apple now offering Certified Refurbished iPho...
Apple is now offering Certified Refurbished iPhone Xr models in the refurbished section of their online store starting at $499. Each iPhone comes with Apple’s standard one-year warranty, ships free,... Read more
Sale! Get a 10.2″ 32GB WiFi iPad for only $27...
Walmart has new 10.2″ 32GB WiFi iPads on sale for $50 off Apple’s MSRP, only $279. These are the same iPads sold by Apple in their retail and online stores. Be sure to select Walmart as the seller... Read more
Apple resellers offer new 2020 Mac minis for...
Apple resellers are offering new 2020 Mac minis for up to $50 off Apple’s MSRP with prices available starting at $759. Shipping is free: (1) B&H Photo: – 2020 4-Core Mac mini: $759 $40 off MSRP... Read more
Sprint is offering the Apple iPhone 11 free t...
Did you miss out on Sprint’s recent free iPhone SE promotion? No worries. Sprint has the 64GB iPhone 11 available for $0 per month for new lines when you trade-in a qualifying phone in any condition... Read more
Apple has clearance 2019 13″ 1.4GHz MacBook P...
Apple has Certified Refurbished 2019 13″ 1.4GHz 4-Core Touch Bar MacBook Pros available today starting at $979 and up to $440 off original MSRP. Apple’s one-year warranty is included, shipping is... Read more
Apple restocks 2019 MacBook Airs starting at...
Apple has clearance, Certified Refurbished, 2019 13″ MacBook Airs available again starting at $779. Each MacBook features a new outer case, comes with a standard Apple one-year warranty, and is... Read more
Apple restocks clearance Mac minis for only $...
Apple has restocked Certified Refurbished 2018 4-Core Mac minis for only $599. Each mini comes with a new outer case plus a standard Apple one-year warranty. Shipping is free: – 3.6GHz Quad-Core... Read more
Apple’s new 2020 13″ MacBook Airs on sale for...
B&H Photo has Apple’s new 2020 13″ 4-Core and 6-Core MacBook Airs on sale today for $50-$100 off Apple’s MSRP, starting at $949. Expedited shipping is free to many addresses in the US. The... Read more

Jobs Board

*Apple* Mac Desktop Support - Global Dimensi...
…Operate and support an Active Directory (AD) server-client environment for all Apple devices operating on the BUMED network + Leverage necessary industry enterprise Read more
Surgical Technologist III, *Apple* Hill Sur...
Surgical Technologist III, Apple Hill Surgical Center - Full Time Tracking Code D5.29.2020 Job Description Surgical Technologist III Apple Hill Surgical Center Read more
Security Officer - *Apple* Store - NANA (Un...
**Security Officer \- Apple Store** **Description** About NMS Built on a culture of safety and integrity, NMSdelivers award\-winning, integrated support services to Read more
Transition Into Practice Program (TIP) - Sept...
…Academy-Transition into Practice (TIP) Residency program at St Mary Medical Center in Apple Valley, CA. **We are seekingRegistered Nurses who are:** + New graduate Read more
Essbase Developer - *Apple* - Theorem, LLC...
Job Summary Apple is seeking an experienced, detail-minded Essbase developer to join our worldwide business development and strategy team. If you are someone who Read more
All contents are Copyright 1984-2011 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.