TweetFollow Us on Twitter

August 91 - Re: Segments from Outer Space

Re: Segments from Outer Space

Jeff Alger

Jeff Alger replies to Kent Sandvik's "Children of the DogCow-Segments from outer space", which appeared in the June 1991 issue of FrameWorks.

Kent,

I'm writing to take issue with two things said regarding segmentation vs. VM in your otherwise excellent article on segmentation in the June Frameworks. Just setting the record straight.

First, you mentioned Unix thrashing is due to page after page being loaded as a thread of function calls is followed. As someone who has worked with Unix systems for almost 15 years now, that is the least likely reason for a thrash-and when it does occur, it is a symptom, not the disease. In almost all Unix thrashing, the problem is simply that you are trying to run too many applications with too big a cumulative space requirement at once. If you were using a Mac, you couldn't even make the attempt, so it is poor sportsmanship to knock Unix for at least trying.

The Mac forces you to partition the memory space, with fixed-size allocations per process, while Unix allows the VM hardware to allocate memory across applications as demand shifts. A classic prescription for this kind of thrashing in Unix is to use shared libraries, something that segmentation actually discourages (jump tables are application-specific, as are the memory spaces used to load the segments). In short, Unix does thrash, but only after it has far surpassed the Mac scheme's ability to juggle the same load.

The second thing that I wanted to comment on is your claim that segmentation solves tight memory problems better than VM. If someone at Apple has been able to prove this with real numbers or some sort of statistical model-quick! nominate them for a Turing Award. Maybe he or she can next develop a generalized sorting algorithm with better than n*log(n) performance. If asked, I'll certainly back the nomination.

Humor aside, the only reasons that segmentation is a better strategy than VM for the Mac are backward software compatibility, compatibility with non-VM Macs, and the fact that a reliable VM kernel is more difficult to implement than simply forcing applications to do their own housekeeping.

Performance of a segmented system must be worse than a VM system for so many reasons, I don't know where to begin: segmentation results in less efficient allocation of memory across the whole machine, since process sizes are fixed, while VM automatically balances memory usage among competing processes; segmentation results in larger swaps than the standard 4K page size of VM; VM allows seldom-used data to be swapped, while segmentation deals only with code; segmentation is a software-only solution, while VM is implemented in low-level hardware (in on-chip hardware for 68030's and 040's); segmentation is not suited to interrupt-time swapping, or for that matter, interrupt-driven multitasking, since it only applies at the start of a function call, while VM allows swap-outs to happen any time without damage; segmentation leads to the need for larger reserves of space-worse, larger reserves for each process-since memory is used less efficiently and an entire segment must be loaded in order to recover from a fault; less efficient use of space also results in more swapping, fewer processes, or both; segmentation works against sharing code across applications and creating truly integrated object-oriented operating systems and applications, since it forces an application, rather than system, perspective on memory usage… I'm out of breath.

Kent, I'm not unloading on you personally, but I am getting tired of the lack of justification from Apple for segmentation vs. VM. At first, I sat back and waited for a good explanation, but none has come out in the couple of months this issue has been thrashed out (if you'll excuse the pun) on MacApp.Tech$. Just recycled potshots. Does anyone have any real numbers, or is this just a "let's trash Unix because we didn't invent it"-party?

Your article was great otherwise, and I learned a lot from it. Keep up the good work, in FrameWorks and in your responses to MacApp.Tech$. You're doing a good job of filling Keith's shoes.

Regards-Jeff

 

Community Search:
MacTech Search:

Software Updates via MacUpdate

Latest Forum Discussions

See All

Tokkun Studio unveils alpha trailer for...
We are back on the MMORPG news train, and this time it comes from the sort of international developers Tokkun Studio. They are based in France and Japan, so it counts. Anyway, semantics aside, they have released an alpha trailer for the upcoming... | Read more »
Win a host of exclusive in-game Honor of...
To celebrate its latest Jujutsu Kaisen crossover event, Honor of Kings is offering a bounty of login and achievement rewards kicking off the holiday season early. [Read more] | Read more »
Miraibo GO comes out swinging hard as it...
Having just launched what feels like yesterday, Dreamcube Studio is wasting no time adding events to their open-world survival Miraibo GO. Abyssal Souls arrives relatively in time for the spooky season and brings with it horrifying new partners to... | Read more »
Ditch the heavy binders and high price t...
As fun as the real-world equivalent and the very old Game Boy version are, the Pokemon Trading Card games have historically been received poorly on mobile. It is a very strange and confusing trend, but one that The Pokemon Company is determined to... | Read more »
Peace amongst mobile gamers is now shatt...
Some of the crazy folk tales from gaming have undoubtedly come from the EVE universe. Stories of spying, betrayal, and epic battles have entered history, and now the franchise expands as CCP Games launches EVE Galaxy Conquest, a free-to-play 4x... | Read more »
Lord of Nazarick, the turn-based RPG bas...
Crunchyroll and A PLUS JAPAN have just confirmed that Lord of Nazarick, their turn-based RPG based on the popular OVERLORD anime, is now available for iOS and Android. Starting today at 2PM CET, fans can download the game from Google Play and the... | Read more »
Digital Extremes' recent Devstream...
If you are anything like me you are impatiently waiting for Warframe: 1999 whilst simultaneously cursing the fact Excalibur Prime is permanently Vault locked. To keep us fed during our wait, Digital Extremes hosted a Double Devstream to dish out a... | Read more »
The Frozen Canvas adds a splash of colou...
It is time to grab your gloves and layer up, as Torchlight: Infinite is diving into the frozen tundra in its sixth season. The Frozen Canvas is a colourful new update that brings a stylish flair to the Netherrealm and puts creativity in the... | Read more »
Back When AOL WAS the Internet – The Tou...
In Episode 606 of The TouchArcade Show we kick things off talking about my plans for this weekend, which has resulted in this week’s show being a bit shorter than normal. We also go over some more updates on our Patreon situation, which has been... | Read more »
Creative Assembly's latest mobile p...
The Total War series has been slowly trickling onto mobile, which is a fantastic thing because most, if not all, of them are incredibly great fun. Creative Assembly's latest to get the Feral Interactive treatment into portable form is Total War:... | Read more »

Price Scanner via MacPrices.net

Early Black Friday Deal: Apple’s newly upgrad...
Amazon has Apple 13″ MacBook Airs with M2 CPUs and 16GB of RAM on early Black Friday sale for $200 off MSRP, only $799. Their prices are the lowest currently available for these newly upgraded 13″ M2... Read more
13-inch 8GB M2 MacBook Airs for $749, $250 of...
Best Buy has Apple 13″ MacBook Airs with M2 CPUs and 8GB of RAM in stock and on sale on their online store for $250 off MSRP. Prices start at $749. Their prices are the lowest currently available for... Read more
Amazon is offering an early Black Friday $100...
Amazon is offering early Black Friday discounts on Apple’s new 2024 WiFi iPad minis ranging up to $100 off MSRP, each with free shipping. These are the lowest prices available for new minis anywhere... Read more
Price Drop! Clearance 14-inch M3 MacBook Pros...
Best Buy is offering a $500 discount on clearance 14″ M3 MacBook Pros on their online store this week with prices available starting at only $1099. Prices valid for online orders only, in-store... Read more
Apple AirPods Pro with USB-C on early Black F...
A couple of Apple retailers are offering $70 (28%) discounts on Apple’s AirPods Pro with USB-C (and hearing aid capabilities) this weekend. These are early AirPods Black Friday discounts if you’re... Read more
Price drop! 13-inch M3 MacBook Airs now avail...
With yesterday’s across-the-board MacBook Air upgrade to 16GB of RAM standard, Apple has dropped prices on clearance 13″ 8GB M3 MacBook Airs, Certified Refurbished, to a new low starting at only $829... Read more
Price drop! Apple 15-inch M3 MacBook Airs now...
With yesterday’s release of 15-inch M3 MacBook Airs with 16GB of RAM standard, Apple has dropped prices on clearance Certified Refurbished 15″ 8GB M3 MacBook Airs to a new low starting at only $999.... Read more
Apple has clearance 15-inch M2 MacBook Airs a...
Apple has clearance, Certified Refurbished, 15″ M2 MacBook Airs now available starting at $929 and ranging up to $410 off original MSRP. These are the cheapest 15″ MacBook Airs for sale today at... Read more
Apple drops prices on 13-inch M2 MacBook Airs...
Apple has dropped prices on 13″ M2 MacBook Airs to a new low of only $749 in their Certified Refurbished store. These are the cheapest M2-powered MacBooks for sale at Apple. Apple’s one-year warranty... Read more
Clearance 13-inch M1 MacBook Airs available a...
Apple has clearance 13″ M1 MacBook Airs, Certified Refurbished, now available for $679 for 8-Core CPU/7-Core GPU/256GB models. Apple’s one-year warranty is included, shipping is free, and each... Read more

Jobs Board

Seasonal Cashier - *Apple* Blossom Mall - J...
Seasonal Cashier - Apple Blossom Mall Location:Winchester, VA, United States (https://jobs.jcp.com/jobs/location/191170/winchester-va-united-states) - Apple Read more
Seasonal Fine Jewelry Commission Associate -...
…Fine Jewelry Commission Associate - Apple Blossom Mall Location:Winchester, VA, United States (https://jobs.jcp.com/jobs/location/191170/winchester-va-united-states) Read more
Seasonal Operations Associate - *Apple* Blo...
Seasonal Operations Associate - Apple Blossom Mall Location:Winchester, VA, United States (https://jobs.jcp.com/jobs/location/191170/winchester-va-united-states) - Read more
Hair Stylist - *Apple* Blossom Mall - JCPen...
Hair Stylist - Apple Blossom Mall Location:Winchester, VA, United States (https://jobs.jcp.com/jobs/location/191170/winchester-va-united-states) - Apple Blossom Read more
Cashier - *Apple* Blossom Mall - JCPenney (...
Cashier - Apple Blossom Mall Location:Winchester, VA, United States (https://jobs.jcp.com/jobs/location/191170/winchester-va-united-states) - Apple Blossom Mall Read more
All contents are Copyright 1984-2011 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.